(11-17-2012, 06:22 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:
(11-16-2012, 11:10 PM)ILLENTINC Wrote: But what happens when it meets at preinstall...floor in isnstalled, a few weeks or months later it fails...it is tested...and now it is outside of mfgr requirements.
That is the difference between a product failure and a MVE failure.
If a floor fails due to moisture and it is within the manufacturer's specs, it is still a failure due to moisture. And the manufacturer should cover it.
If the slab reads much higher than it did during installation, it is a failure caused by something else. The water didn't come from the evil flooring spirits. It is someone's fault. Somebody did something wrong, and we can determine who is responsible.
You are far too new to this business to understand.
JD. when a manufacturer says a floor will not fail between X and Y, that is the spec and that is what the manufacturer says. If the floor fails and it fails between X and Y then you have a product failure because the product is supposed to perform between X and Y. That is not a MVE failure..it is a PRODUCT failure, and that is when the MFGR steps up to the plate...as they should.
If the readings are higher at failure time than they are at install time...Robert has already explained to you how that can happen. It happens. When it happens, the flooring manufacturer, the adhesive manufacturer, and the test equipment manufacturer walks away....because they can...and they should! That is what you refuse to acknowledge.
A vapor barrier gets punctured during installation. I know that NEVER happens but humor me....
The slab, at the time it is tested, under "ideal" conditions tests within limits....floor is installed, the vapor barrier continues to degrade, floor fails....it is tested...outside of limits...and everyone walks away.
JD do you get this yet? I am not saying your preferred test method does not work. On a straight concrete slab, with no other factors at work, it is more accurate than previous methods to test potential for failure due to MVE. But that is what it tests...potential for failure. It is a risk management tool. Nothing more. Floors fail after being tested "within limits" at the time of install with your preferred test method.
You keep fighting a losing battle. Yes I am a manufacturers rep. I represent several quality manufacturers. Their products work. One of which has the absolute best repair, restoration, patching and overlay material on the market. It is untouchable. There is not a manufacturer on in the marketplace that is close to the performance of this product.
Another manufacturer I represent has among other things a concrete admixture. This admixture simply makes concrete impermeable. It eliminates one of the two sources of moisture protects against the other. It has multiple ancillary benefits.
JD you are correct. 4 years into it, this is a new industry to me, as compared to you. That does not make you better than me. I have several customers that have "been in concrete 30 years" One of the things I have learned is sometimes an outsider looking in sees things that those who have been doing longer don't. That is not me saying I am better than you...just possibly have a different point of view. You don't know much about me aside from linkedin....I have a technical background. I am not an academic, I do dig deep into things, I don't just take a manufacturer's word that something works simply because I am a "salesman trying to make a sale" If it goes on my line card, it works. I have seen it work, I understand why it works, how it works, I have taken it apart, I have tried to break it, I have tested it's limits, I am confident the info from the manufacturer is accurate about performance. I don't just spout talking points and attempt to make a sale. I sell with honesty, I sell with integrity, I am not out to make a "quick sale" and walk away. When someone buys my product my job is not over...it has just begun!
My lack of experience in this industry is not a hindrance, it is a benefit. Experience does not = intelligence, and it does not always = wisdom.
JD you do realize that even a slight change in ambient temperature, a slight change in concrete temperature changes the test results of all test methods including rapid RH don't you?
Just because rapid RH appears to be more accurate than the other methods..does not mean it is the ONLY test that is "accurate". It does not mean that owners and other interested parties should embrace that single test.
I am not here pitching a product. I am here for other reasons.