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Mositure Testing Over Concrete Discussion

#31
Wagner doesn't pay me! In fact I didn't recommend the Rapid Rh, even though it is the most accurate and easy to use RH measuring device on the market! Tongue

I feel comfortable doing both, but I don't put much stock in a MVER reading for the dozens of reasons I have espoused again and again.

If the MVER is at 2lbs and the RH is at 99% what will you do?

Alternately if the RH is at 72% and the MVER is at 6lbs what will you do?
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
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#32
(04-18-2011, 05:18 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:  Wagner doesn't pay me! In fact I didn't recommend the Rapid Rh, even though it is the most accurate and easy to use RH measuring device on the market! Tongue

I feel comfortable doing both, but I don't put much stock in a MVER reading for the dozens of reasons I have espoused again and again.

If the MVER is at 2lbs and the RH is at 99% what will you do?

Alternately if the RH is at 72% and the MVER is at 6lbs what will you do?

Scratch head......and mumble alot.

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
Reply

#33

(04-18-2011, 05:18 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:  Wagner doesn't pay me! In fact I didn't recommend the Rapid Rh, even though it is the most accurate and easy to use RH measuring device on the market! Tongue

I feel comfortable doing both, but I don't put much stock in a MVER reading for the dozens of reasons I have espoused again and again.

If the MVER is at 2lbs and the RH is at 99% what will you do?

Alternately if the RH is at 72% and the MVER is at 6lbs what will you do?

(04-18-2011, 09:36 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  Scratch head......and mumble alot.

Ha ha, well that high RH and low MVER comes up so often it's scary, and that's why the industry is moving away from the CaCl test. Because the CaCl test only measures the top 1/4" of the concrete it isn't revealing the potential the slab has for failure.

The big discrepancy in the argument that RH is all inclusive (and I'll open a can of worms here that perhaps we can discuss) is this: If the concrete surface is burned black and essentially sealed, or a sealer was applied, or it is just a really well cured slab with few open pores for moisture to travel through.... then do we really need to worry about that moisture trapped within as long as it is not gassing off in vapor? In that case, could we just measure the vapor coming out (MVER) and use that to determine a safe threshold (3lbs/24hrs/Ksf) ?

You know what I'm going to say..... NO. Tongue This is what we have come to realize after thousands of failures. Something was going wrong, something was missing. We were getting the right MVER yet floors were failing. We were missing an indicator that would reveal another problem with the slab.

You see, concrete slabs can be ticking time-bombs full of water and alkalinity deep within that a CaCl test isn't showing us. That sealed cap that is restricting MVER can act as a semi-permeable layer and contribute to osmotic blistering. The Wagners and Howard weren't just sitting around wondering what new gizmo they could produce to fund their new beach houses in Cabo, (okay, maybe they were Big Grin ) the development of the Rapid RH was done, and is being continually improved, to help the industry determine the failure potential of concrete substrates. They created a tool to help us solve a problem. A trouble indicator our current tools couldn't find.

I'd like everyone to believe the Rapid RH is a revolutionary tool we can use to look inside our concrete and find the 'failure potential' that exists, then we can use that information to decide if the concrete needs something further before we install flooring.

You may notice I am quite passionate about Rapid RH. It is for good reason. And no I do not work for Wagner (so many people ask me that Tongue ) My Wagner's Rapid RH sensors have never failed me, the theory is sound and proven, and the industry is accepting it. I have never had a failure based on information gleaned using the Rapid RH, and never is a good record to have. Time and time again I resolve issues that have frustrated clients for years with a simple, easy and inexpensive RH test, and then everything is clear.

Who could ask for more? Smile
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
Reply

#34
[quote='CC Solutions' pid='826' dateline='1303172324 You may notice I am quite passionate about Rapid RH. It is for good reason. And no I do not work for Wagner (so many people ask me that ) My Wagner's Rapid RH sensors have never failed me, the theory is sound and proven, and the industry is accepting it. I have never had a failure based on information gleaned using the Rapid RH, and never is a good record to have. Time and time again I resolve issues that have frustrated clients for years with a simple, easy and inexpensive RH test, and then everything is clear.

[/quote]

And if I was in the business of selling over priced moisture mitigation systems I would say the same thing, blast it, seal it and forget it.Big Grin

I know you don't work for Wagner, I was joking......or was I ? How is it you know about the beach hoiuses in Cabo?

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
Reply

#35
Ha ha ha... The beach houses are a hopeful guess.... Maybe we'll be invited for a week someday!!!

HEY!! Overpriced mitigation systems? Sad

Have you ever been involved in a multi-million dollar failure? My mitigation has resolved some of those failures. Wink

But the failure still had to be paid for. Sad

If you think mitigation is expensive, you should think what failure will cost. (trademark Tongue Don't be stealing that line.... Wink )

OH!!! I have another!!!!

If you think TESTING is expensive, you should consider what a flooring failure will cost! (Trademark CCS, 2011 all rights reserved.... Tongue )
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
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#36
I am stealing those. hee hee I said that to two people today already.Big Grin

I got one word...mitigationorlitigation
.
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
Reply

#37
(04-19-2011, 03:23 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  I am stealing those. hee hee I said that to two people today already.Big Grin

I got one word...mitigationorlitigation
.

Oh, I LIKE that word... Or have a Wheel of Fortune setting with the last letters already turned over ITIGATION and then have the contestant (with a shirt saying something like Joe's Flooring on it) saying, "I'll take an M for the win Alex!!! "

Well it looks goo din my mind anyway.... Big Grin
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
Reply


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