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RH Numbers Rising

#61
I live in the desert and seen slabs so dry without a vapor retarder underneath it virtually sucks the moisture out of patch right before your eyes. I've seen them so wet you can smell it like a wet dungeon when you walk in.

You just need to know your concrete and know how to check it.
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
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#62
Heating up a slab for drying increases curl and later relaxation, causes movement at the joints. There is no cure for nautral drying, no matter how you accellerate the drying there are consequences.
Rayt
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#63
(09-11-2011, 06:50 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  I live in the desert and seen slabs so dry without a vapor retarder underneath it virtually sucks the moisture out of patch right before your eyes. I've seen them so wet you can smell it like a wet dungeon when you walk in.

You just need to know your concrete and know how to check it.

You can have a bone dry slab with no vapor retarder under it. BUT, you cannot place a moisture sensitive floor on that slab unless there is a proper functioning vapor retarder under the slab.

The concrete may have lived a life of extreme drying and could be rather dry on the surface even if there is high humidity in the soils below. But if you place a solid rubber floor on that slab the moisture will build up and there could be a catastrophic failure. This is what we see all the time with CaCl tests and bewildered installers wondering how a low MVER slab suddenly became very wet. They start blaming 'surface condensation at the time of installation' and all kinds of paranormal events when actually the problem was always right there. Confused
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
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#64
(09-12-2011, 09:07 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  
(09-11-2011, 06:50 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  I live in the desert and seen slabs so dry without a vapor retarder underneath it virtually sucks the moisture out of patch right before your eyes. I've seen them so wet you can smell it like a wet dungeon when you walk in.

You just need to know your concrete and know how to check it.

You can have a bone dry slab with no vapor retarder under it. BUT, you cannot place a moisture sensitive floor on that slab unless there is a proper functioning vapor retarder under the slab.

Yes you can. It happens every day
(09-12-2011, 09:07 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  The concrete may have lived a life of extreme drying and could be rather dry on the surface even if there is high humidity in the soils below. But if you place a solid rubber floor on that slab the moisture will build up and there could be a catastrophic failure. This is what we see all the time with CaCl tests and bewildered installers wondering how a low MVER slab suddenly became very wet. They start blaming 'surface condensation at the time of installation' and all kinds of paranormal events when actually the problem was always right there. Confused

Poppycock! Sometimes it's wet and sometimes it ain't. If you use an adhesive that sets up waterproof then whats the problem?

I believe.......I believe theres going to be....well there already is but more adhesives coming out that will make moisture testing obsolete.
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
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#65
(09-12-2011, 05:14 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  
(09-12-2011, 09:07 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  
(09-11-2011, 06:50 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  I live in the desert and seen slabs so dry without a vapor retarder underneath it virtually sucks the moisture out of patch right before your eyes. I've seen them so wet you can smell it like a wet dungeon when you walk in.

You just need to know your concrete and know how to check it.

You can have a bone dry slab with no vapor retarder under it. BUT, you cannot place a moisture sensitive floor on that slab unless there is a proper functioning vapor retarder under the slab.

Yes you can. It happens every day
(09-12-2011, 09:07 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  The concrete may have lived a life of extreme drying and could be rather dry on the surface even if there is high humidity in the soils below. But if you place a solid rubber floor on that slab the moisture will build up and there could be a catastrophic failure. This is what we see all the time with CaCl tests and bewildered installers wondering how a low MVER slab suddenly became very wet. They start blaming 'surface condensation at the time of installation' and all kinds of paranormal events when actually the problem was always right there. Confused

Poppycock! Sometimes it's wet and sometimes it ain't. If you use an adhesive that sets up waterproof then whats the problem?

I believe.......I believe theres going to be....well there already is but more adhesives coming out that will make moisture testing obsolete.

Wow. Sad

Did you miss like the last couple years of this forum? Huh

Alkalinity can eat your waterproof glue and destroy it. It can destroy epoxy adhesives. It can destroy urethanes.

Your dry slab today can be a wet alkaline disaster tomorrow.
Never install without a proper and functioning vapor retarder, and never install when the slab exceeds the manufacturer's RH values.

If you do those two things you will eliminate almost every chance of a moisture related failure. Exclamation

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
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#66
Don't be silly. There's a plethora of alkaline resistant adhesives out there.
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
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#67
Okay, I'll call your bluff.

Name one that can be placed on a slab with 95% RH and pH of 14. Huh
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
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#68
http://www.formulatorsonline.com/aquaflex-adhesive.html Tongue
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
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#69
Why is it the contractors who live in arid climates believe they do not need a vapor retarder? The desert is by far the worst area for vapor emissions! If you look at what drives moisture emissions, temperature and humidity. The higher the temperature and the lower the humidity (the desert) the faster the moisture flow. I deal with moisture related problems in both Phoenix and Seattle and Phoenix is by far the worst. Sorry Stephen, but Tuscon is the worst in the US.
Regards
Rayt
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#70
Oh Yes! Benny Dickens! You know he sent me a sample and I never used it.... Blush

So what is it? Is he just installing flooring into an epoxy mitigation system?
(09-13-2011, 08:37 AM)rthompson Wrote:  Why is it the contractors who live in arid climates believe they do not need a vapor retarder? The desert is by far the worst area for vapor emissions! If you look at what drives moisture emissions, temperature and humidity. The higher the temperature and the lower the humidity (the desert) the faster the moisture flow. I deal with moisture related problems in both Phoenix and Seattle and Phoenix is by far the worst. Sorry Stephen, but Tuscon is the worst in the US.
Regards
Rayt

Good point Ray.... Yes the surface of concrete slabs can be bone dry, but cover them with sheet vinyl and boy do they get wetExclamation
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
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