Concrete Moisture Meter - Printable Version
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Concrete Moisture Meter - DeanC - 02-04-2011 09:34 AM
I heard a rumor about concrete moisture meters getting their own ASTM standard... is this true?
This concrete forum seems to recommend concrete relative humidity testing. Is that better than using a meter?
Thanks for your help!
RE: Concrete Moisture Meter - CC Solutions - 02-05-2011 09:37 AM
Are you referring to electrical impedance meters?
RE: Concrete Moisture Meter - DeanC - 02-05-2011 07:22 PM
Yes. Pinless Concrete Moisture Meters.
RE: Concrete Moisture Meter - CC Solutions - 02-06-2011 11:26 AM
It has been my experience that EI meters can be fooled by surface moisture, concrete density, steel reinforcing, and concrete constituents among other things.
While some of these factors may not vary widely within a single pour of concrete, think how they can vary between a slab poured in Northern Michigan compared to one in Southern Florida.
EI meters measure how well a signal flows through concrete. Dense concrete will transfer the signal more readily that porous concrete, steel contributes also. Moisture is what we are looking for, and moisture helps the signal along, discerning how much of the reading is moisture and how much is due to other factors is the key.
My beef is the inspector who walks onto a job site, plunks down his EI meter and says "Five! It reads five so the slab is too wet, sorry."
Well five what? Percent? I just took a reading of my fireplace hearth which is limestone and it reads 0%. I don't believe it has 0% moisture. Then for fun I placed the meter on a piece of steel and it read 7%. While the steel I'm sure has no moisture in it, the conductivity of the steel is very good and read the equivalent conductivity of concrete at 7% moisture. I did this just to demonstrate how materials can effect the readings.
Now move to a job site. How do we compare a 12" slab to a 3" slab? Wire mesh reinforced or maybe not. Maybe even steel fibers. I was on a job where the 5/8" rebar was sticking out of the surface of the slab in dozens of locations. What will that do to an EI meter if we place it near rebar that is just under the surface cream? I can tell you the slab will read wetter than it should. The surface of a slab may be more porous than the concrete an inch or two down. Or the opposite can be true. How are we to know?
So do I think EI meters are worthless? Not at all. I can quickly walk a floor and take EI readings of the surface in literally hundreds of spots. The concrete density probably doesn't vary as much as it will from multiple batches poured under varying conditions. The constituents should all be the same. The reinforcement will vary, but I can work around that as I am reading. What I'm looking for are areas with overall higher or lower readings to conduct follow up testing to determine cause. It will not tell me of moisture problems deep in the slab unless they are bad enough to show at the surface. Then I need to think if surface moisture or temperature may be throwing my readings off.
You can imaging how concrete at dew point reads very high. You may not see surface moisture because of a slight breeze from HVAC or natural convection. The concrete can darken from moisture but still have a dry surface. Readings again will be artificially high.
There's a lot of thinking involved when using EI meters, I just touched on some that came to mind. Sorry for the long rambling...
RE: Concrete Moisture Meter - DeanC - 02-07-2011 10:30 AM
Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. You're right - I can see how concrete moisture meters would be thrown off way too easily, and they don't give you the answer to the question you should be looking for (what is the RH?). You sold me.
Now I just want to know why concrete meters have their own ASTM spec?!?
RE: Concrete Moisture Meter - CC Solutions - 02-07-2011 11:10 AM
(02-07-2011 10:30 AM)DeanC Wrote: Thanks. That makes a lot of sense. You're right - I can see how concrete moisture meters would be thrown off way too easily, and they don't give you the answer to the question you should be looking for (what is the RH?). You sold me.
Well, every test and testing apparatus will have its own standard. The standard just tells us the parameters of properly conducting the test. Its up to us to determine which test will give us the information we need to make good decisions.
RE: Concrete Moisture Meter - eaadams - 02-09-2011 10:36 AM
And there are more than just EI meters. (electrical impedance) The GE meeter is not EI I don't think. I think it is some sort of RF as it doesn't have electrical contacts.
But every tester I've ever used uses EI to find the high points in a slab to set his probes (or set a higher concentration of probes in that area).