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+--- Forum: Moisture Measurement in Concrete (/forumdisplay.php?fid=2)
+--- Thread: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? (/showthread.php?tid=221)
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - eaadams - 11-13-2011 06:07 PM
Didn't realize Obamaism as a word has crossed the pacific. Wow
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - Rubensgt40 - 11-13-2011 08:01 PM
(11-13-2011 06:07 PM)eaadams Wrote: Didn't realize Obamaism as a word has crossed the pacific. Wow
Well, I'm a bit unusual in that respect.
I suppose I'd be equally surprised if you referred to our PM as the Bogan Queen.
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - CC Solutions - 11-13-2011 08:21 PM
The reliability of a MMS on high RH floors?
First you will have to specify which MMS you are looking at. There are dozens of MMS that aren't worth the pail they come in....
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - CC Solutions - 11-16-2011 11:49 AM
(11-11-2011 07:12 AM)Ernesto Wrote: OK you switched from talking about after the fact high moisture readings to explicitly talking about a vapor retarder under slab. Of course if there is no retarder under slab some manufacturers will not warranty it, although the tech guy I talked to at Bostik said they warranty it up to 15 lbs.
And 90 percent of the time there are no retarders under slabs, yet you still are required to test even if there is a retarder under the slab. Why? theres a reason, go ask. Can't tell ya how many slabs are gone over without an additional layer of glue/vapor retarder. Basically MVP4 is just another layer of glue without the anti-slumping compound in it. If I am using just BB then I always step up the notch. I can read slabs. I used to strictly do sheet vinyl and never tested, never had a moisture issue.
How about their newer adhesives like the One Step, the Seal N Grip, do they function better because they have an extra layer of adhesive or is it strictly the chemical composition or both that ae supposed to prevent failures? Do they also state there must be a vapor retarder under the slab?
Now for your claim that any after the fact high reading will void any warranty. Thats complete nonsense. If that were true there would be no flooring going down and no glue sales.
The most important thing is is to NOT install when the readingsa are high.
Stephen,
To answer this question, manufacturer's require moisture testing before installation to verify conditions are proper for their adhesive. Remember, they also stipulate a proper and functioning sub-slab vapor retarder is required. With a vapor retarder in place and low moisture readings there should be no problems with the adhesive working for many many years.
But if there is no vapor retarder or the vapor retarder is not functioning properly (punctured, open seams, below a blotter layer) the possibility of moisture building in the slab after a flooring is installed on the slab is a very real problem. For this reason if a failure occurs, the manufacturer will test the slab and if excessive moisture is found they may very well deny any responsibility.
This happens so often when MVER testing is used and a 3lb limit is specified. A floor is installed and when the slab equilibrates or if any moisture is getting in from beneath it, the MVER climbs, alkalinity increases, and the floor fails. The moisture was always there, but a CaCl test doesn't pick it up.
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - eaadams - 11-16-2011 12:20 PM
ding ding ding. the correct answer is above.
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - CC Solutions - 11-16-2011 12:31 PM
(11-16-2011 12:20 PM)eaadams Wrote: ding ding ding. the correct answer is above.
Thanks!
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - Ernesto - 11-16-2011 04:45 PM
Who said I was using a CaCl test? ding
Ya know JD, your good at spouting what any manufacturer you like any one day puts on paper, but that does not make it true. It can be and it may not be.
This has been discovered over how many years now we have been doing moisture testing concrete? I think I have been testing concrete more years than you have been out of high school.
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - CC Solutions - 11-16-2011 04:57 PM
(11-16-2011 04:45 PM)Ernesto Wrote: Who said I was using a CaCl test? ding
Ya know JD, your good at spouting what any manufacturer you like any one day puts on paper, but that does not make it true. It can be and it may not be.
True or not, following directions will keep the manufacturer behind you and on your side. Thinking you know better when using their products and going against their published requirements will land you in the hot seat every time.
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - Ernesto - 11-16-2011 05:18 PM
Oh yah, oh jeez
RE: MMS- Are some unreliable with high RH? - eaadams - 11-16-2011 06:23 PM
I saw a job yesterday where the sub sold a non approved special adhesive because he thought he knew better.
Dude is going to have to pay for a mms and new floor. He broke with our spec.