metal disks - Printable Version
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metal disks - eaadams - 09-14-2011 05:12 PM
Wagner, can I buy additional metal disks for patching over? I want the crews to have a bunch in their trucks.
RE: metal disks - CC Solutions - 09-14-2011 06:23 PM
I should have saved all mine through the years.... I always fill the probes with epoxy
You know electricians have these in a pinch also.... The knockouts from electrical boxes should work....
RE: metal disks - eaadams - 09-14-2011 06:32 PM
Isn't epoxy kinda overkill? The 880? I wonder why Wagner does a disk...
RE: metal disks - CC Solutions - 09-15-2011 04:56 AM
When I blast I pull the caps, and then when we epoxy, it just flows right over the probes and fills them up.
The metal disk is a great idea because it supports weight, doesn't expand or contract and you can find it again with a metal detector if by chance you ever want to take another reading years down the road.
RE: metal disks - rapidrhrep - 09-15-2011 08:30 AM
Man, I need to put JD on the payroll. All of the reason's he gave are correct, but the main is to be able to close that "testing loop". We want you to be able to have the best testing method and device, provide you with the the proper recording sheet and the certificate of calibration (information needed for ASTM standards), and then give you what no one else does, the ability to actually prove that the "x number" of Rapid RH sensors you have documented on your recording sheet can actually be found in the slab (metal disk, by metal detector) and serial numbers compared if necessary. Obviously, this would only need to come into play if there was an issue with the floor later, but it is a great feature to have in your back pocket if you need it.
EA---As far as disks, this isn't nomally something we sell seperately, but drop me an email email@example.com, let me know how many you need and I will get you information on Monday when I get into the office.
RE: metal disks - CC Solutions - 09-15-2011 01:02 PM
You mean I'm not??
I guess that explains why the check never shows up!!
Okay, I have to go cancel that boat I ordered....
Soooooo.... if the discs serve as an indicator that probes are in place.... What's to keep a guy from just mudding over a bunch of disks? Like a guy could just order some extra discs and just put them down here and there and say he installed probes... Or just mud in a washer.... Or a gold doubloon..... Nah... Well you got me there. I never considered using the discs to prove I installed tests.
RE: metal disks - rapidrhrep - 09-15-2011 01:58 PM
JD I thought you just bought Tiger Woods old yacht with all your money?
Lets say you have six Rapid RH tests documented for a given slab. You have documented serials number for each prior to installation and have the certificate of calibration. The RH% come back as acceptable to install the given floor. The floor fails, first question asked, "did you do moisture testing"? You show your documentation, the next question, "how do I know you didn't just make these readings up and/or how do I know these readings have anything to do with the slab in question"? Remember, half of the recording sheet we provide is for numerical documentation of the tests, the other half of the sheets is to document "rough" placement of the tests. If you have this and have utilized the metal disks, you can easily find the six probes, pop out the patch, and retreive the inserts(serials numbers tying back to documentation). You have now been able to close the loop.
RE: metal disks - CC Solutions - 09-15-2011 02:23 PM
(09-15-2011 01:58 PM)rapidrhrep Wrote: The floor fails, first question asked, "did you do moisture testing"? You show your documentation, the next question, "how do I know you didn't just make these readings up and/or how do I know these readings have anything to do with the slab in question"?
Hmmm... That makes more sense than the way I have been doing it...
Tests? What tests? Floor? What floor? Jason? Who's Jason?
This of course is only applicable if I have been paid for the job.
Okay, seriously, back to your scenario...
Did you take the tests? Yes.
What did they read? 12% RH.
How many did you use? 6.
Can you prove it? Weeeeelllllllll.... I can get out my handy dandy Ronco metal disc detector and find six probes. I can open said probes and retrieve the serial numbers. I can even stick the reader back in said probes and .... Oooops, they read 99% now. Well they DID read 12% and the floor was okay....
So as a way to verify that at one point in time they actually did read value X, finding them again is not going to help. If you said the floor was good it must have been good, and the only thing that could have caused the moisture to come up would have been a missing or improper vapor retarder, or your initial probe installation was wrong. Wrong depth, hole oblong, sitting in a big chunk of granite. If you installed the probe incorrectly, you wouldn't want someone digging it back up to critique your work now that there is a failure!!!
And the value of reusing the probe may not be as great as re-drilling new probes in an out-of-the-way location such as under a soda machine or in a closet to determine current RH values.
So in summary, just because you can find the probe and prove you actually have the NIST certificate for the serial numbers in the floor, that doesn't prove you didn't get paid off by the GC to write down low RH values so he could get his floor installed on time. But it does open up critiquing of your installation for further review.... Unless I'm missing something here....
RE: metal disks - eaadams - 09-15-2011 02:29 PM
If budget was no factor this sounds like the perfect application for an RFID chip.
RE: metal disks - CC Solutions - 09-15-2011 05:39 PM
RFID = Radio Frequency Identification?
Do you mean a probe that will transmit the data? I know they have those.
I always have a witness look at the readings. Not every time, but if the installer is ready to go, I walk around with him and we check the readings. Or usually someone from the GC is always looking over my shoulder.
Then I follow up with a report stating the readings, all parameters of the testing, and any attendees that watched the testing. I email that to whoever hired me and file a copy in my office.
Usually a dated copy of a report is enough evidence that if any problems came up you could use that as the basis. If there was a question about the readings at the date of the original report, someone would have mentioned it then.