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+--- Thread: City Supervisors Meeting (/showthread.php?tid=171)
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City Supervisors Meeting - eaadams - 08-31-2011 12:25 PM
I have to get something together for a maintenance supervisor to take to a top 50 (in size) supervisors meeting. So he will take what I give him and present it to them.
I have to explain what moisture is and why their floor is failing. I tested it and it came out at 99% rH. Went outside and in the dessert w/ no watering for the summer, it looks like marsh land, 4' tall green weeds. So I am concluding that it is moisture intrusion to the slab and it is probably spreading under the slab through a sand blotter layer.
Ray, can you point me to some good summation articles you might have done?
I think I will use this as a base: http://www.concreteconstruction.net/concrete-construction/why-are-we-still-having-problems-with-moisture.aspx
I feel like I am playing telephone with concrete moisture and it makes me feel uneasy.
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - rthompson - 08-31-2011 01:20 PM
What kind of a vapor retarder do they have? Is there a blotter layer and how thick?
Rayt
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - eaadams - 08-31-2011 01:35 PM
Don't know either for sure.
In California a 2" blotter layer seems to be the standard.
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - CC Solutions - 08-31-2011 03:02 PM
New floor? Old?
Blotters are BAD and fly in the face of F-710. Any puncture in a vapor retarder under a blotter layer can allow huge amounts of water into that sand layer.
You can core a hole and see what's there! Then tell them to mitigate.
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - rthompson - 08-31-2011 11:47 PM
In April 2001 ACI changed the requirement to slab in direct contact with the vapor retarder. A 16d nail hole will allow a huge amount of H2O through into the blotter layer anf the H2O will travel through the entire slab. If the slab is in direct contact with the vapor retarder the moisture will travel vertically and diffuse off center about the thickness of the slab.
Hope this helps.
Rayt
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - eaadams - 09-02-2011 09:18 AM
Yes all things I am unfortunately very aware off.
Still, looking for good summation articles on moisture. Not on the benefits of RH, Not on the sealing systems, just on what is moisture and how it affects flooring.
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - CC Solutions - 09-02-2011 09:33 AM
Well if you want a line that will really wake them up, sometimes I use this one....
Moisture isn't the problem. Good glues don't break down because they are wet.
That usually makes them perk up, just tell them all this time they've been chasing moisture and water that water isn't the real issue. You can stick a piece of flooring glued to cement backer board in a tub of water for a month and it won't break down.
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - Ernesto - 09-03-2011 02:00 PM
(09-02-2011 09:33 AM)CC Solutions Wrote: Well if you want a line that will really wake them up, sometimes I use this one....
Moisture isn't the problem. Good glues don't break down because they are wet.
That usually makes them perk up, just tell them all this time they've been chasing moisture and water that water isn't the real issue. You can stick a piece of flooring glued to cement backer board in a tub of water for a month and it won't break down.
Then whats the issue of a hardwood floor is cupping and it's installed over a trowel on vapor retarder or a damp crawl space?
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - CC Solutions - 09-03-2011 03:54 PM
(09-03-2011 02:00 PM)Ernesto Wrote: Then whats the issue of a hardwood floor is cupping and it's installed over a trowel on vapor retarder or a damp crawl space?
That's easy!! Hardwood floors absorb moisture. The flooring itself is affected by the moisture. The trowel on vapor retarder isn't working if the floor is cupping.
The adhesive is probably just fine.
RE: City Supervisors Meeting - Ernesto - 09-03-2011 04:41 PM
(09-03-2011 03:54 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:(09-03-2011 02:00 PM)Ernesto Wrote: Then whats the issue of a hardwood floor is cupping and it's installed over a trowel on vapor retarder or a damp crawl space?
That's easy!! Hardwood floors absorb moisture. The flooring itself is affected by the moisture. The trowel on vapor retarder isn't working if the floor is cupping.
The adhesive is probably just fine.
But ....didn't you just say moisture is not important nor the problem?