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Old concrete slab moisture
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03-17-2011, 10:43 AM #11
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
ASR is tough, but can be repaired. Typically you have to remove some of the surface and add a new layer of cementitious material. There are those who advocate an assembly system where a dimpled material with an upper hard surface is installed, allowing the floor below to breath and therefor not letting the moisture build in the slab aggravating the ASR. I have seen some flood the floor with lithium nitrate attempting to bind the reactive silicate constituents and keep them from reacting with the alkali cement.

We midwesterners don't see ASR as often as some in the south and west, (knocking on wood....) but the one time I had to deal with it I scarified the concrete down an inch and added a new top layer of cement.

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

03-17-2011, 06:04 PM #12
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
You could possibly be growing an ASR farm using that stuff.Cool

Here's an article I like, it's in my concrete file. http://www.understanding-cement.com/alkali-silica.html

Oh and if you have a few minutes here's another one I like alot. I am surprised these are still on the net...kinda oldies but goodies. Or is it? hmmmm read the part where he says holes are no problem in the vapor barrier below the concrete.

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-003-concrete-floor-problems?full_view=1

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

03-17-2011, 08:07 PM #13
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
Stephen,
Bruce Suprenant did a comprehensive study on the effect of a hole (I believe it was a 3/4" hole) in the vapor retarder when the retarder was placed in direct contact with the bottom of the concrete slab. What he found and published was that the hole had very little affect on the amount of moisture vapor measured at the surface.

I teach this in my classes (so I hope he was right!) because it makes sense to me. However, a hole in a vapor retarder than has a blotter layer above it can be devastating. The blotter layer allows moisture to move throughout the underslab area like a big sponge. In fact, the capillary action of a sand blotter layer can pull water through the hole.

If you'd like I can look for Bruce's article.

I hope I got my 'affect' and 'effect' words correct.... Those always make me think more than they should..... Tongue

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

03-18-2011, 07:29 AM #14
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
Yes I'd like to read Bruce's article. I know the name. It all sound logical to me about the sand sucking up the water.

Recently I had to look up "effect" and "affect" as well. Must be the age thing.

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

03-18-2011, 10:37 AM #15
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
Is it my computer only or are posts missing? I must be losing my mind.

Anyway, here is another neat article on buildings and touches on wood problems. Good article for those who don't know much about wood and moisture.

http://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-023-wood-is-good-but-strange?topic=resources/flooring-probs

I got that one off this rescource list there

http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/flooring-probs



Weird, only the latest posts show after I post a new one. hmmmmm

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

03-18-2011, 05:43 PM #16
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
What?

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

03-24-2011, 09:34 PM #17
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
I desperately want a copy of the Bruce Suprenant article please!

03-25-2011, 05:53 PM #18
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
eaadams, looks like CC is holding out on us. Sad I want one too.

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

04-01-2011, 08:00 AM #19
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
You guys are going to make me dig that thing up??? Tongue

I'll keep looking, but it IS tax time you know..... Seems I am expected to keep Uncle Sam solvent this year, paid in more than a small country's GNP and they still want more.... Sad

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

04-01-2011, 09:02 AM #20
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
One word ... extention








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