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Mositure Testing Over Concrete Discussion
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04-11-2011, 09:18 AM #21
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
(04-11-2011, 08:45 AM)eaadams Wrote:  To both your statements the answer is ... because concrete cracks.

Silicates, don't get me started on those suede shoe criminals.

I'm 'discussing' silicates on another thread with a gentleman that is telling everyone he has THE end all answer to all moisture problems, just spray his miracle product on the floor and all your troubles disappear.

He has stated there will be NO moisture vapor at all coming from the slab. I called him on that and he produced some documentation that showed .03 perms.

I asked what he says when installers point out that adhesive manufacturers will void their warranty if there is a silicate based sealer on the slab and he said he 'educates them' and then his company covers the warranty. He hasn't found out if the warranty covers alkalinity.

Of course the written warranty is for a new bucket of product if there is a failure.

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

04-18-2011, 12:36 PM #22
T_Schneider Newbie *
Status: Offline Posts:7 Threads:0 Joined:Mar 2011
(04-09-2011, 10:00 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  My point is; Bob's favorite testing methods have been proven to give false results. While I agree in using multiple tests to get a more wholesome picture, I rely most heavily on RH testing, and many major manufacturers are also making the shift. This is NOT because it is cool and chic, but because it works and it saves money.

Ardex has also made the switch to relative humidity (ASTM F 2170) for our moisture control systems. It is our position (and fact, for that matter), that calcium chloride only tells you what is going on at the surface of the slab. Relative humidity is a much better indication of what is lurking below.

04-18-2011, 01:15 PM #23
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
(04-18-2011, 12:36 PM)T_Schneider Wrote:  
(04-09-2011, 10:00 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  My point is; Bob's favorite testing methods have been proven to give false results. While I agree in using multiple tests to get a more wholesome picture, I rely most heavily on RH testing, and many major manufacturers are also making the shift. This is NOT because it is cool and chic, but because it works and it saves money.

Ardex has also made the switch to relative humidity (ASTM F 2170) for our moisture control systems. It is our position (and fact, for that matter), that calcium chloride only tells you what is going on at the surface of the slab. Relative humidity is a much better indication of what is lurking below.

Thanks T.
The MVER testing can indicate a slab that has received a recent flooding or condensation issue, so while it is not completely a dead test, it must never be used alone for determining slab moisture. Wink

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

04-18-2011, 03:12 PM #24
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
(04-18-2011, 01:15 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:  
(04-18-2011, 12:36 PM)T_Schneider Wrote:  
(04-09-2011, 10:00 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  My point is; Bob's favorite testing methods have been proven to give false results. While I agree in using multiple tests to get a more wholesome picture, I rely most heavily on RH testing, and many major manufacturers are also making the shift. This is NOT because it is cool and chic, but because it works and it saves money.

Ardex has also made the switch to relative humidity (ASTM F 2170) for our moisture control systems. It is our position (and fact, for that matter), that calcium chloride only tells you what is going on at the surface of the slab. Relative humidity is a much better indication of what is lurking below.

Thanks T.
The MVER testing can indicate a slab that has received a recent flooding or condensation issue, so while it is not completely a dead test, it must never be used alone for determining slab moisture. Wink

And my point is that insitu will never tell you whats going to come out of the top. Therefore I have declared any astm moisture test for concrete a MINIMUM STANDARD. Whatever "minimum standard" means, which is taken from the CRI Carpet installation standards. Tongue

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

04-18-2011, 03:14 PM #25
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
(04-18-2011, 03:12 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  And my point is that isnitu will never tell you whats going to come out of the top. There fore I have declared any astm moisture test for concrete a MINIMUM STANDARD. LOL

Ahhh, but we don't care!!! If the moisture content of the concrete is low enough, the concrete is ready for flooring! It won't have high moisture problems! And this is GUARANTEED by more and more manufacturers every day. Big Grin

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

04-18-2011, 03:20 PM #26
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
Absolutely, especially since "my slab is 50 years old and never had a moisture issue". Big Grin

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

04-18-2011, 03:22 PM #27
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
Well of course there are parameters that must be followed. You must have a good vapor retarder and no blotter layer.

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

04-18-2011, 03:26 PM #28
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
I was just thinking, poor Ray has to put up with us bottom feeders. hee hee

And I have a confession to make. I've been cheating on you guys. http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&discussionID=46934696&gid=3724612&commentID=36884517&trk=view_disc

I have to get hooked up with that moisture control system Leie Sualua uses. Vapor green.

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

04-18-2011, 03:35 PM #29
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
Vapor green... Okay. When I have time I'll look at the warranty.

I don't understand your reluctance or trepidation regarding RH testing. It is a proven method and those who specify it are investing millions of their own dollars into the promise that it works.

It is my goal to get you to trust it! It is not easily fooled, and it is extremely accurate!

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

04-18-2011, 03:54 PM #30
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
(04-18-2011, 03:35 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:  Vapor green... Okay. When I have time I'll look at the warranty.

I don't understand your reluctance or trepidation regarding RH testing. It is a proven method and those who specify it are investing millions of their own dollars into the promise that it works.

It is my goal to get you to trust it! It is not easily fooled, and it is extremely accurate!

I feel more comfortable doing both. I trust no one with my spotless reputation. Is wagner paying you to say that?


Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com








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