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Mopped the Floor
07-12-2012, 01:35 PM
Post: #11
RE: Mopped the Floor
Wow, exactly what product are you installing at 98%??? Huh

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
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07-18-2012, 11:15 AM
Post: #12
RE: Mopped the Floor
PM'd you the product
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07-19-2012, 07:42 PM
Post: #13
RE: Mopped the Floor
Thank you for that, and I sure do wish you the best of luck with that product.
I have done similar tests but was always told those adhesives wouldn't hold up on high rH floors. My response was always "what's to fail?"

Kind of like putting a vinyl floor down by laying it directly into the wet Koster or Ardex MC or Aquafin.... What's to fail?

I want to research the adhesive further, and I'd like to see their warranty in writing. I couldn't find it on their website so I will call them.

Good luck!

JD Grafton
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07-20-2012, 05:48 AM
Post: #14
RE: Mopped the Floor
Believe it or not, I know of an instance where Ardex MC was installed just HOURS after the concrete was placed!!!Huh Have no idea WHAT could have been the thinking behind this one

JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
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07-20-2012, 06:17 AM
Post: #15
RE: Mopped the Floor
How did the job turn out? I'd like to know what conditions Ardex finds unfavorable for immediate application of MC.

JD Grafton
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07-20-2012, 06:42 AM
Post: #16
RE: Mopped the Floor
It failed miserably. As far as I know, Ardex still requires application of MC (as does Koster) after the new concrete has cured for a minimum of 7 days. This application was so far outside the box. As I always say, follow manufacturer instructions exactly, or you have no recourse if there's a failure. And ALWAYS read the directions...one of the biggest oversights I used to see on failed installations!

JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com
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07-20-2012, 07:01 AM
Post: #17
RE: Mopped the Floor
What do you think the difference in 7 day old concrete is compared to 4 hour old concrete? The instructions don't go any further than specifying the date. The 7 day old concrete will be stronger at the surface, so maybe that is the concern; that the epoxy will delaminate the surface when it dries.

Otherwise, blasting the 7 day old concrete will leave you a ultra highly alkaline substrate that is very wet, so moisture and alkalinity can't be the reason to wait.

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
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07-20-2012, 07:41 AM
Post: #18
RE: Mopped the Floor
Tech data sheets have been updated for Koster and Ardex MC and as you noted, both state 7 day waiting period. However the original MC formula touted it would drop MVER levels from 20lbs to 3 lbs. So, if freshly placed concrete is 28 lbs or so, a drop of 8lbs would make sense (perhaps after 7 days). The variable of course, is still curing and drying conditions. Regardless, noboby claims their products can be installed on fresh concrete. That was just a wrong thing to even consider!

JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com
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07-20-2012, 08:03 AM
Post: #19
RE: Mopped the Floor
Ardex should get away from that MVER statement soon. How can you measure MVER over an epoxy mitigation system? You can't follow the ASTM, that's for sure. Besides, who believes MVER readings anymore?

The only moisture suppression systems that I see applied to fresh concrete are the ones that use silicates. Like a Cure and Seal.

Since the big Koster shake up I have been putting down mostly Ardex MC and V1200. I bought a semi load last week in fact. It is a little learning curve for the crew, but they are coming around.

JD Grafton
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07-20-2012, 08:21 AM
Post: #20
RE: Mopped the Floor
(07-20-2012 06:17 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  How did the job turn out? I'd like to know what conditions Ardex finds unfavorable for immediate application of MC.

(07-20-2012 07:01 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  What do you think the difference in 7 day old concrete is compared to 4 hour old concrete? The instructions don't go any further than specifying the date. The 7 day old concrete will be stronger at the surface, so maybe that is the concern; that the epoxy will delaminate the surface when it dries.

Otherwise, blasting the 7 day old concrete will leave you a ultra highly alkaline substrate that is very wet, so moisture and alkalinity can't be the reason to wait.

(07-20-2012 08:03 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  Ardex should get away from that MVER statement soon. How can you measure MVER over an epoxy mitigation system? You can't follow the ASTM, that's for sure. Besides, who believes MVER readings anymore?

The only moisture suppression systems that I see applied to fresh concrete are the ones that use silicates. Like a Cure and Seal.

Since the big Koster shake up I have been putting down mostly Ardex MC and V1200. I bought a semi load last week in fact. It is a little learning curve for the crew, but they are coming around.

They did. That was a brochure for the old MC formula launched in 2003. They don't even offer that anymore. Their new literature states RH levels only as the test measurement to go by, yet they still state 7 day application, or levels up to 98%. However (have not confirmed), 100% is now the benchmark. I have not read any newer literature stating that as of yet. What was the Koster shake up?

JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com
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