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How thick is your floor?
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03-27-2012, 10:23 AM #1
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
A flooring contractor used Wagners to test a new slab and the GC wanted a second opinion.

I was called in and tested a few locations using the same Rapid RH (is there anything else? Tongue ) and concurred with the flooring sub that the floor was too wet for the flooring they were installing.

The floor was put in anyway, using a latex sealer and 'special' glue. It is failing just a few months later.

I was called in again and asked to evaluate the slab, starting with RH. This is where things get more serious. We have a failure so now we have to ramp it up a bit. Even though I am being told the slab is 4" thick, I need to verify that it really is. Well guess what?

It isn't.

I drilled depth holes approximately 8" from my new test holes and measured the slab between 4" and up to 8" thick.

Now that there is a problem, I am rethinking my original testing. I did say the slab was too wet so I am kind of safe there, but if they go off my original readings and based their sealer on that, was I off? Either way, my readings were over 90% and even the Wagner can vary by 3% at that high of RH so we could have been at 94% to 97% easily.
I sure never said the slab was at or below 90%. And we were looking for 75% so if my probes were too shallow and reading 90%, going deeper would have been even wetter.

Perhaps there are grade beams in the ground that were not noted. Maybe there are grade beams down low, then vapor retarder was installed and the top 4" is separated from the thicker concrete. If that is the case my new readings could be erroneous because I have some at 3.2" deep!

It's too early to tell, but there will be a lot of questions asked in the near future. Slabs on grade are notoriously uniform in my experience, unless there was something buried or beefed up. No concrete installer wants to pay for extra slab thickness and no GC is going to let him pour less than he bid. Slabs just don't tend to vary more than half an inch on grade and a good sprinkling of readers will catch any discrepancy.

It could be that all the original probes were put in 4" concrete and I just happened to hit the thick parts now because I am installing along supporting walls to stay out of the way.

I'll let you know what comes out in the wash.

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

03-27-2012, 01:14 PM #2
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
When you took the 8" thickness core was there a vapor retarder 4" down?

If there is a grade beam I guess there wouldn't be a vapor retarder but if you get the cores polished would a break be evident.

Interesting.... going to follow this thread.

When you say failing what do you mean? the new high ph and high moisture installation systems fail differently than the old school 75% type failures.

03-27-2012, 02:01 PM #3
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
I didn't core yet, just did a few RH tests.....

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

03-27-2012, 08:08 PM #4
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
Tell me your NOT doing these tests for free just to get the remediation. Rolleyes

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

03-28-2012, 06:06 AM #5
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
Do $400 worth of free tests to get a $40,000 remediation job?

No.

I was hired to test this floor, as I was 8 months ago.

If it needs remediation I will bid it.

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

03-31-2012, 08:23 PM #6
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
You need this!!!!
http://youtu.be/Y9vFmiGNg14

Toys, gotta love them.

04-01-2012, 09:14 AM #7
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
(03-31-2012, 08:23 PM)eaadams Wrote:  You need this!!!!
http://youtu.be/Y9vFmiGNg14

Toys, gotta love them.

Thats a nice toy!


One mans opinion....having a remediation guy test your slab is like having a manufacturer of flooring inspect their own claims. Rolleyes

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

04-02-2012, 09:53 PM #8
CCR Concrete Moisture Coach ***
Status: Offline Posts:236 Threads:14 Joined:Dec 2011
Agreed. That's why I only test and do not install moisture mitigation systems...absolutely no perceived conflict of interest.

JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com

04-03-2012, 09:56 AM #9
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
now now, lets not thread jack this. We can have a separate thread on testing/mitigation. This thread is about slab thickness.

04-04-2012, 03:36 AM #10
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
(04-01-2012, 09:14 AM)Ernesto Wrote:  
(03-31-2012, 08:23 PM)eaadams Wrote:  You need this!!!!
http://youtu.be/Y9vFmiGNg14

Toys, gotta love them.

Thats a nice toy!


One mans opinion....having a remediation guy test your slab is like having a manufacturer of flooring inspect their own claims. Rolleyes

How is that? F2170 leaves no room for interpreting the results. The numbers aren't subjective. We are looking to explain why the spray-and-pray failed.

BTW, the RH is within the spray-and-pray manufacturer's limits but the pH. Is high.

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com








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