• 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Bad, Bad Testing

#31
(03-22-2013, 03:28 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  I suppose we better stay on topic, Sorry... Tongue

Yeah, that'll learn ya!

(03-24-2013, 06:40 AM)CCR Wrote:  Like many other other contributors, I shy away from making less than positive comments about particular manufacturers in this forum. Best advise it to just keep your eyes open to what's specified for the job being tested and proceed accordingly.

You're such a diplomat, JK! But it is difficult to take them on- we can only act on the information we have at hand.

I know of a manufacturer here (carpet) which actually says to test RH via the insulated hood method, but not ASTM2420- an older one which specifies 16 hours for equillibrium. This method was devised for the old analogue "hair" hygrometers which needed 16 hours to absorb the moisture. Even worse, this manufacturer actually shuns ASTM F2170 saying "it's a US Standard and not in compliance with Australian Standards". Which is technically true, but only for their standard - the Aussie resilient standards have welcomed ASTM2170 with open arms. I'm guessing this manufacturer is on the committee which is baulking at adopting 2170 for the carpet standard.

So, if that's what their warranty says, then you gotta go test with a hood at 16 hours I guess!
The problem with socialism is that you soon run out of other people's money.
- Margaret Thatcher

Reply

#32
(03-24-2013, 06:06 AM)hausenheimer Wrote:  
(03-21-2013, 12:02 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:  Frustrating isn't it Jim? Tongue

It's a wonder how anything stays down sometimes.

I had a job once that just about every conceivable installation failure happened. Improper prep, WAY too wet slab, improper trowel size, improper patch mixing, improper glue set times, improper temperature during install, I couldn't find anything that seemed to be done right, yet for the most part the floor was holding.

My experience is limited, about 12 years, but it holds because the adhesives we use are not TOTAL junk. It will take at least a few years depending on circumstances for the adhesive to fail. Being a flooring subcontractor, and knowing my local competition, that is all that matters. Most of my competitors and the GC's I work for, all they care about are getting past our 1-2 year installation warranty.

Also, my competition, just needs to get past their warranty and they are out of the loop. Even the cheapest adhesives will stick for a year. It is very sad that the industry is like this. Especially in Atlanta, where there is SO much work.


DANGER POST!

DANGER POST! (Sirens should be going off at this time---) Tongue

While some improper installations will stay down on floors that are too wet - for a while - an installer is flirting with bankruptcy if that is his standard operating procedure.

Oftentimes the glue does take time to break down due to alkali attack, but other times the moisture alone can affect the bond strength enough that traffic areas begin to fail immediately.

Either way, the installer is not immune from a lawsuit regarding improper installation after a year, I don't care what you have on your contract or warranty page. Exclamation
JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
[email protected]
Reply

#33
(03-25-2013, 05:43 AM)CC Solutions Wrote:  
(03-24-2013, 06:06 AM)hausenheimer Wrote:  
(03-21-2013, 12:02 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:  Frustrating isn't it Jim? Tongue

It's a wonder how anything stays down sometimes.

I had a job once that just about every conceivable installation failure happened. Improper prep, WAY too wet slab, improper trowel size, improper patch mixing, improper glue set times, improper temperature during install, I couldn't find anything that seemed to be done right, yet for the most part the floor was holding.

My experience is limited, about 12 years, but it holds because the adhesives we use are not TOTAL junk. It will take at least a few years depending on circumstances for the adhesive to fail. Being a flooring subcontractor, and knowing my local competition, that is all that matters. Most of my competitors and the GC's I work for, all they care about are getting past our 1-2 year installation warranty.

Also, my competition, just needs to get past their warranty and they are out of the loop. Even the cheapest adhesives will stick for a year. It is very sad that the industry is like this. Especially in Atlanta, where there is SO much work.


DANGER POST!

DANGER POST! (Sirens should be going off at this time---) Tongue

While some improper installations will stay down on floors that are too wet - for a while - an installer is flirting with bankruptcy if that is his standard operating procedure.

Oftentimes the glue does take time to break down due to alkali attack, but other times the moisture alone can affect the bond strength enough that traffic areas begin to fail immediately.

Either way, the installer is not immune from a lawsuit regarding improper installation after a year, I don't care what you have on your contract or warranty page. Exclamation

I agree, and have heard the potential liabilities of being responsible for installations beyond warranties. It is why we test most of our installations. I don't want the owners problem to be my problem.
Reply


Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  PH TESTING MINUS 5 22,039 04-02-2014, 04:10 AM
Last Post: hersitervery

Digg   Delicious   Reddit   Facebook   Twitter   StumbleUpon  


Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)