#Login Register
Another tester brought in to dispute test results.
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average


08-09-2011, 04:20 PM #1
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
It was a dark and stormy night...
All my stories should start like Snoopy always started his. This story takes place in a small medical building on the shore of Lake Michigan, circa 2007.

My Wagners are reading 92% - 96%, and the GC is chomping at the bit to get a floor in to keep on schedule. Mitigation is expensive, so a new testing company was brought in (I think they were recommended by the flooring installer).

I was informed this new testing company has conducted rH tests and their probes read 56%. The installer wants to begin installing, and unless I have some bulletproof reason why he shouldn't they are going to start.

In these situations I like to have the installer present on the job site when a meeting is held with the GC. Luckily the flooring owner and the other testing company could make it and we could walk the floor.

I always start with the concrete mix and placement, then the conditions of the slab, the finishing, and how often it was rewet. I show studies from the big testing labs on how long it takes concrete to dry. The idea is to get lay the groundwork for a realistic expectation on where the slab should be even before we start reading probes.

On this slab, it was down for 3 months, is 5 inches thick and the roof has been on for about a month. Doors are still missing and windows just went in. Drying for the most part has been minimal. The slab surface is burned black and shiny. Puddles are on the floor where people are working with water.

Now we discuss testing procedures and ASTM F2170. We discuss why 1869 is flawed, and why we measure at 40%. We discuss which direction the slab dries from and how long we expect this slab will take to reach 75% considering all the extenuating factors. (a 5 syllable word Jason!!! Big Grin )

By now the other tester is looking either completely lost or nervous, I can't read him. He was using probes manufactured by a major player I won't name because if I did you'd say GEE, they're big! We approach the first probe I put in and the GC asks me to read the probe so we can see where we are today. I put in my reader and it reads 97% and 67 degrees. He asks the other tester and he installs his probe and says it reads 75% and 82 degrees. The GC says that is still good enough to lay a floor on! and my heart sinks.... Did he listen to anything I have said to this point? I recap what we expected to see and explain the removable probes cannot be placed in a hole and read like that. My infrared thermometer shows the slab temp is 67 just as my reader said, yet this other probe is reading 82. We need to let that probe acclimate, even then I don't like the open sleeve design with holes punched out of the side. Further examination shows the sleeve is only about 1 1/4" in the hole and the bottom is cut off.

Now I really have this guy. Not testing according to the manufacturer's specs, or the ASTM, his integrity is shot. My probes make sense, they are NIST certified (he has never checked calibration), and my holes are spot on.

In the end, my readings are accepted as factual, the owner decides NOT to install and take the risk, and Munters driers are brought in for almost 5 weeks. The floor dries down to the low 90's before the owner pulls the trigger and orders a mitigation system.

While the system cost some money up front, it has been 4 years and the floors in the operating rooms are still performing flawlessly.
That is a success story! Smile

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

08-09-2011, 09:23 PM #2
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
I have always wanted to see those Munters driers working. Probably the best solution for moisture issues in new construction.

At least the other tester was using rH. Most of our "PE's" in California use CaCl tests and they just toss them down and say ok thats good enuf. Makes my head want to explode every time.

08-09-2011, 09:36 PM #3
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
They are nice, but they aren't cheap. I'd rather just have the HVAC on, but that isn't possible very often!

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

08-14-2011, 08:29 PM #4
Ernesto Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:606 Threads:33 Joined:Sep 2009
(08-09-2011, 09:36 PM)CC Solutions Wrote:  They are nice, but they aren't cheap. I'd rather just have the HVAC on, but that isn't possible very often!

LEED?

Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com

08-14-2011, 09:32 PM #5
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
No, usually dust and warranty affect when the HVAC is fired up....

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com








Possibly Related Threads...
Thread / Author Replies / Views Last Post
6 Replies 9,848 Views
Last Post by Ernesto
05-13-2013, 04:51 PM
10 Replies 17,586 Views
Last Post by eaadams
01-18-2013, 04:48 PM
4 Replies 10,771 Views
Last Post by CC Solutions
10-13-2011, 03:09 PM
16 Replies 32,776 Views
Last Post by CC Solutions
08-08-2011, 11:41 AM
11 Replies 29,372 Views
Last Post by CC Solutions
09-20-2010, 03:01 PM
3 Replies 11,568 Views
Last Post by Ernesto
08-30-2010, 12:42 PM
5 Replies 13,332 Views
Last Post by Ernesto
07-12-2010, 07:00 PM
2 Replies 8,598 Views
Last Post by eaadams
07-09-2010, 09:45 AM
14 Replies 34,762 Views
Last Post by CC Solutions
01-15-2010, 09:36 PM
2 Replies 9,374 Views
Last Post by CC Solutions
12-16-2009, 11:45 AM

Users browsing this thread:
1 Guest(s)