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Amazing Concrete Moisture Solution!
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08-30-2013, 01:06 PM #21
CCR Concrete Moisture Coach ***
Status: Offline Posts:236 Threads:14 Joined:Dec 2011
Having worked for Ardex for a number of years I can tell you it is not wise to go against an Ardex recommendation when it's crucial. Sure, they want to sell products, but not at the expense of a potential failure.

JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com

08-30-2013, 01:08 PM #22
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
Yea that is why I went with Mr Level Master Elite and the others .... didn't.

Dice, they've got six sides. Perhaps they will get lucky.

08-30-2013, 01:09 PM #23
CCR Concrete Moisture Coach ***
Status: Offline Posts:236 Threads:14 Joined:Dec 2011
The system used to fix this project was from Ardex.


(08-30-2013, 12:11 PM)eaadams Wrote:  
(08-07-2013, 08:10 AM)eaadams Wrote:  heh ... talk to me after next Friday. Smile 40,000 sf up to bid.

I have a CTL spec here from another project where the beadblast was enough. But not sure in the new job what the new rules will be.

I will say I got an ear full from George Donnelly last week. Some of my ideas about unreacted lithium silicates that Harold / Minerology would say he takes great objection to.

Ardex came out with a much better spec to fix these slabs with MC Ultra. But looks like I lost the jobs to someone who is going to risk it with MC Rapid against some peoples explicit warnings not to use it.

(08-30-2013, 01:08 PM)eaadams Wrote:  Yea that is why I went with Mr Level Master Elite and the others .... didn't.

Dice, they've got six sides. Perhaps they will get lucky.

I sense a failure on the horizon, not even knowing all the details

JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com

09-01-2013, 07:37 AM #24
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
As an Ardex mitigation installer I am interested to know the particulars of the proposed installation.

I also sense the hesitation regarding MC Rapid.

It has been my experience that all MC systems work 100% of the time when the concrete is properly prepared and installation is properly done.

I have seen failures with MC Ultra due to installation errors and improper preparation. MC Ultra requires many more steps to install, and each step has to be perfectly executed to perform properly.

What I am saying is the gambling isn't happening when you choose the system to be used....

The real gamble is choosing the installer! Exclamation

And yes, I have seen Level Master Elite failures too many times to count.

The product is sound but proper installation is the key to performance. Wink

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com

02-26-2014, 09:23 AM #25
eaadams Concrete Moisture Expert *****
Status: Offline Posts:591 Threads:85 Joined:Jul 2010
Great article by Scott Tarr: http://www.concreteconstruction.net/concrete-slabs-and-floors/hardeners-can-be-beneficial_o.aspx

"the use of reactive penetrants as an integral or topical moisture vapor mitigation should only be attempted when the risk of a floor covering failure is acceptable"

02-26-2014, 03:20 PM #26
CC Solutions Concrete Moisture Evangelist *******
Status: Offline Posts:1,065 Threads:69 Joined:Dec 2009
Scott writes:

"When tested using ASTM E96, concrete slabs that contain integral silicate admixtures or topical silicate treatments result in no measurable decrease in water vapor transmission when compared to equivalent slabs without the silicate. In addition, the reaction product is not hydrophobic, so it is not an effective water repellent. Without supporting test data, the use of reactive penetrants as an integral or topical moisture vapor mitigation should only be attempted when the risk of a floor covering failure is acceptable."

I wish he would have given us a reference to the exact studies conducted so we could gather the actual data. This once again blows the doors off admixes that claim to function as viable vapor retarders but then require us to use soil testing ASTM standards to measure their effectiveness!!

In my own study conducted on a single slab I used an admix claiming to act as a vapor retarder on one half of the building and the other half was a standard concrete mix with fly ash added.

CaCl testing showed the admix side emitted a higher vapor quantity than the standard concrete side, and I was told then that I couldn't measure the effectiveness of the admix using old testing methods! I asked the admix rep which testing standard did he have that would be acceptable to the adhesive and flooring manufacturer?? Of course he had none then (this was about 10 years ago) and the admix industry has yet to come up with a standard that shows their product works, and is accepted by industry experts. Wink

I will echo what Scott said in my own words:

Admixes work great as a vapor retarder if you really don't need a vapor retarder.

JD

JD Grafton
Concrete Answers for Flooring Problems
JGrafton@ccsolves.com








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