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A most unfortunate flooring failure!

#41
Pictures with verifyable background is also important and indisputible.

But commercial bizness is like the ole southwest where just about any cowboy GC is able to manipulate the subs any way he wants. Thats why I stay away from commercial.

Sure there mountains of cash to be made. But there's certainly more to be lost. Thats why I stick to residential. If they don't wanna pay for testing then I am off to the next job where they will pay. I even get jobs from contractors in Phoenix AZ to test. ALL of those are jobs gone bad though. To late. But I still make money doing them. Not as much as I could if the sensor got jacked by the white insertion tool though. Sad

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZyfogUvv7k
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
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#42
(12-03-2012, 06:42 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  Sure there mountains of cash to be made.

Say what?! All the residential people I know have better constant income. Commercial is boom & bust & it can hurt in times like this.
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#43
(12-03-2012, 06:46 PM)eaadams Wrote:  
(12-03-2012, 06:42 PM)Ernesto Wrote:  Sure there mountains of cash to be made.

Say what?! All the residential people I know have better constant income. Commercial is boom & bust & it can hurt in times like this.

Out of context quote there buddy. Big Grin
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
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#44
(11-20-2012, 03:07 PM)surfacesteve Wrote:  This is an unfortunate issue in our industry. Most architectural firms in our market do specify 2170. However, Flooring Contractors will not include budgets for testing in fear of overshooting their target by a few thousand dollars. We have recently began a campaign to reach specification writers and encourage them to specify 3rd party independent moisture testing agencies. When this happens, everyone is on a level playing field and must include the numbers in the bid package. The building owner ultimately picks up the tab and everyone wins!:Big Grin

AMEN to this!! I have seen a shift in our area to the specs calling for 3rd party testing as well, AS IT SHOULD BE.
Erica
Project Manager
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#45
Same around here...seeing more specs requiring the GC to get RH testing performed by a third party, ICRI certified technician! However, I can tell you they are often overlooking it and throwing down calcium chloride kits themselves. Huh
JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com
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#46
Though specified by the architect insuti testing still being fought for a high school because the flooring contract did not budget for that. Be interesting to see how this turns out. Will require 225 probes!
On another note 4,000 sf very expensive wood. Hired gun for mfg stated 3 calcium chloride tests 5 lbs 5.5 lbs 5.84 lbs. What makes this more remarkable is he states the wood moisture content top 7.1% back 7.3% highly unlikely this is possible. Wood science makes this impossible. RH testing results 60%. Cause ambient humidity levels 15% producing a moisture imbalance of 2% differential top to bottom. Result Dry cupping!
For wood guys sandwich was 2 layers of 15 lb felt secured with black asphalt mastic, 3/4" plywood exposure 1, Aquabar between plywood and hardwood. Subsequently they installed 3 steam humidifiers to rectify the situation. White oak rift and quarter sawn. Very expensive hardwood $20 sq ft. Real sad! Looks like it is coming around after 4 weeks of exposure to 40% relative humidity.
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#47
(06-01-2013, 01:12 PM)jim decker Wrote:  On another note 4,000 sf very expensive wood. Hired gun for mfg stated 3 calcium chloride tests 5 lbs 5.5 lbs 5.84 lbs. What makes this more remarkable is he states the wood moisture content top 7.1% back 7.3% highly unlikely this is possible. Wood science makes this impossible. RH testing results 60%. Cause ambient humidity levels 15% producing a moisture imbalance of 2% differential top to bottom. Result Dry cupping!
For wood guys sandwich was 2 layers of 15 lb felt secured with black asphalt mastic, 3/4" plywood exposure 1, Aquabar between plywood and hardwood. Subsequently they installed 3 steam humidifiers to rectify the situation. White oak rift and quarter sawn. Very expensive hardwood $20 sq ft. Real sad! Looks like it is coming around after 4 weeks of exposure to 40% relative humidity.

Jim, whats the width of that wood? Most of the old wood round the old parts of town are 2 1/4 RS and have no issues with dryness.

With all the felt and aquabar underneath? Don't think he needed that unless there was some sort of damp crawlspace, and even then he should have applied more time to resolving the space.

Or he could have used that energy to educate the consumer on proper humidification.
Stephen Perrera dba
Top Floor Installation Co.
http://www.tucsonazflooring.com
http://www.floorsavior.com
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#48
Ok width of wood 8" additionally 5 rooms facing west ceiling to floor glass no uv or any other window treatment. Wood temp on surface 98 degrees average 4.6% mc on top 6.6% on bottom. Two conditions contributed to this condition Greenhouse effect unoccupied HVAC not running as it was unoccupied. Surface temp of wood 98 degrees as stated RH 15%. Combination greenhouse effect and low rh stated cause. Environmental.
Only rooms facing glass top to bottom affected. Office and hallways normal. Testing will always determine cause.
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#49
(06-01-2013, 01:12 PM)jim decker Wrote:  Though specified by the architect insuti testing still being fought for a high school because the flooring contract did not budget for that. Be interesting to see how this turns out. Will require 225 probes!
On another note 4,000 sf very expensive wood. Hired gun for mfg stated 3 calcium chloride tests 5 lbs 5.5 lbs 5.84 lbs. What makes this more remarkable is he states the wood moisture content top 7.1% back 7.3% highly unlikely this is possible. Wood science makes this impossible. RH testing results 60%. Cause ambient humidity levels 15% producing a moisture imbalance of 2% differential top to bottom. Result Dry cupping!
For wood guys sandwich was 2 layers of 15 lb felt secured with black asphalt mastic, 3/4" plywood exposure 1, Aquabar between plywood and hardwood. Subsequently they installed 3 steam humidifiers to rectify the situation. White oak rift and quarter sawn. Very expensive hardwood $20 sq ft. Real sad! Looks like it is coming around after 4 weeks of exposure to 40% relative humidity.

I have to admit, I'm probably the least knowledgeable about wood, but the facts make absolute sense. But what I notice most is the fact moisture testing was not budgeted in the flooring contract! Certainly it had to be in the architectural spec in Div. 9. This is what I continue to see...it's required, but no one includes testing for fear of losing the bid. It's time for the owners and/or GCs and architects to call this out as an absolute requirement in the bid. And better still by a third-party certified testing agency. In short, the almighty dollar is still driving poor decisions.
JK Nixon
Concrete Restoration Services, LLC
Pittsburgh, PA
http://www.rhtester.com
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